The Pope’s comments were made during a September 21 speech at Castel Gandolfo, whereby he reportedly told his assembled religious brethren that “The family is threatened in many places by a faulty conception of human nature.” Some translations have him saying the word “defective,” in fact.
...
Perhaps most startling of his remarks on gay marriage and secularization was his saying the Church must “promote those values that permit the full development of the human person.”
Friday, 28 September 2012
Pope Decides Gay People Aren’t Fully Developed Humans
Pope decides gay people aren't fully developed humans
Neil Armstrong - RIP
RIP = Requiem in Pacet
Us boomers have fond memories of Neil Armstrong.
Unfortunately, the Phelps clan doesn't.
Goban Van Rompay @GobinetVanRompa
Us boomers have fond memories of Neil Armstrong.
Unfortunately, the Phelps clan doesn't.
Goban Van Rompay
God gave Neil Armstrong 82 years to obey. He ignored God’s law with his proud adultery. It is not going well for him now!
Monday, 20 August 2012
Alcoholics Anonymous - Revealed
I know this is a bit off-topic for this blog but it will become relevant further down. Full disclosure - I am a member of AA, currently holding a position of minor responsibility and have held other positions of responsibility in the past. I am posting in a state of anonymity - after it's all said and done, I'm just a bunch of pixels on a screen. My training is in systems analysis. I am not in the "addictions business". I am not a spokesman for AA; our Traditions prevent it. The only authoritative information about Alcoholics Anonymous can be found at the AA website, literature published by The Grapevine, literature with the AA imprimatur found at AA meetings or offices, or elsewhere. That material has been reviewed by committees responsible to the membership as a whole and found to be legitimate AA thought. Basically if it doesn't say AA on it, it ain't AA and can't be trusted as an authoritative source. Hell, don't even trust me or any other member - look it up for yourself. [Although there is plenty of non-AA material out there to support (or deny) my position, due to the ephemeral nature of the Internet, I'm not going to link to any of it. Even take the Wikipedia entry with a grain of salt.]
The official AA preamble
Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
A very, very brief explanation (as best I understand it, see official sources above).
AA was founded in 1929 by two men, a doctor and a stockbroker, who had exhausted all other methods of staying sober. They stumbled across a methodology where they could stay sober by helping other people to get sober. It turned out one good way was to have informal meetings at somebody's house over a pot of coffee. Eventually it was decided that it might be a good idea to formalize things so a book was written (The Big Book) and published. In the process of writing the book the core Steps of AA were fleshed out, but not without considerable arguing. One of the biggest was what to do about religion. Some wanted to invoke something within the Abrahamic tradition (God, Allah, YHWH) but this was quickly shouted down. It eventually settled down to a recommendation (Dr. Carl Jung had some minor involvement here) for some sort of spirituality, informally referred to as a "higher power", more formally as "God" always with the caveat "as we understood him" with a realization that this understanding would, and inevitably should vary wildly from individual member to member. Frankly, to save confusion, I wish they'd left that particular moniker out of it but we're stuck with it. So there.
The other big issue was, of course, the relationship with alcohol and the definition of "alcoholism". It pretty soon became apparent that any sort of controlled drinking was out of the question. If you could do that, you wouldn't be there in the first place. It also became apparent that there were a whole host of co-morbid behavioural problems that taken together with the inability to stop drinking, could sum up a working definition of "alcoholism". By trial and error, a solution of sorts was found in The 12 Steps, published in The Big Book ..
A few things to note. These are bullet-points rather than full sentences. There are capitalized references to "Him" referring to "God", in the manner that it is done in holy scripture. Note, however, that "Steps" is also capitalized. Frankly I wish these weren't capitalized to save confusion, but they may have something to do with typographical and stylistic cliches of the time.
Pretty soon, the meetings got big enough that they wouldn't fit in a kitchen, then groups sprung up in other cities and it became clear that some sort of group behavioural structure needed to be fleshed out - hence (in 1945) The12 Traditions.
Note again, the "God" reference but the key words in Step 2 are "group conscience" and "trusted servants...do not govern".
As I said above, I'm a systems analyst. I've analyzed Alcoholics Anonymous and reached the firm and inescapable conclusion that it cannot possibly work...except for the fact that it does. When it became big enough to need an organizational structure, they went and set it up all backwards and upside down. There's no money to speak of (a banker's recommendation!). The hierarchy is an inverse pyramid. There's even a Service Manual that includes such gems as (paraphrase), "if you can't get a clear consensus on something - toss a coin". Lovely.
Now one thing to consider is, if you've spent any time around alcoholics or addicts, certain behaviours stick out. If you tell one to do something, the result will often be the exact opposite. Hence, a top down approach simply isn't going to work. A whole buncha rules isn't going to work. Hell, the 12 Steps are "suggested". So if you look closely at the Traditions in that light, they start to make better sense.
Here's how a typical meeting runs (YMMV wildly)
Beginners (and everybody else for that matter) are encouraged to attend meetings regularly (beginners are encouraged to attempt to attend 90 meetings in 90 days where practical), read the Big Book, read other literature such as pamphlets (free), the Grapevine (a monthly magazine referred to as "a meeting in print" and other AA books (for sale but if you're hard up somebody will usually buy you one), get a sponsor (someone with experience in the program to answer questions and give advice - YMMV), and "work the Steps" in a workable timeframe. People are also encouraged to do "service work" or "12th-stepping", something so simple as helping set out the chairs, greeting at the door and making coffee, working up to chairing meetings, getting involved in committee work, taking a position of higher responsibility within committees and volunteering at central office or telephone work (some cities or even countries have a 24-hour call-in line). There are also opportunities to work within the penal system, hospitals by chairing meetings and with medical and legal professionals by giving speeches all on a volunteer basis. You can do all of it, some of it or none of it. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.
The core of AA's approach to alcoholism can probably be summed up by The ABC's...
In that...
You have to bear in mind that every group is different, some are better than others. I've attended some groups and walked out half way through the meeting. I've stumbled on others that are excellent. Also, individual members' perceptions and understanding of AA vary wildly. There's plenty of bullshit spouted in meetings by people who should know better. Again, don't even trust me, check the resources above and attend some actual meetings (at more than one group) before making a hard-and-fast judgement. Much of what you read and hear about AA is complete and utter bullshit from people who have rushed to judgement based upon faulty knowledge or innate bias. There are people in AA meetings with hidden agendas including the desire to proselytize. No group is perfect. If I claimed that I'd be doing a No True Scotsman for any flaw in AA.
What prompted this blog entry was a posting on a message board I frequent. Several people on there have objections to AA, which usually results in a dogfight, which gets deleted by the moderators before anybody's had a chance to really resolve anything (assuming that's possible).
Here is the salient part of one, captured before it was deleted, usernames disguised, may be slightly out of sequence. The users are aware they're being quoted here and have agreed. They will also be provided with a link so they can come here and rebut.
________________________________________________________
MN: Here's why AA is a bullshit cult
AA advertises ridiculously high success rates which are effectively lies. The only true metric of how effective AA is would compare AA to those who decide to break their addiction on their own, and when you make that comparison you find that AA is not effective at all and some studies have shown that it is even LESS effective. If you look at the 12 steps, it's not hard to figure out why. The first step requires that you admit you are powerless over your addiction. If someone convinces themselves they are powerless over their addiction, what's to stop them from a relapse? The answer AA provides is ridiculous. 7 of the 12 steps require one to put their faith in god. So in other words, AA teaches you that you're helpless against your addiction, and the only thing that's going to keep you on the straight an narrow is the belief in an imaginary friend that never listens to you and will never help.
Z: I agree with that and more...
It's not just that it's a religious cult, it's also that A.A. is anti-science and anti-treatment. They promote ideas hat people who are addicts shouldn't be treated for their underlying psychological conditions, such a anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, et cetera. Like any cult, the push the idea that "only we can understand each other," so it isolates the addict from their outside support and gives them a new identity as a cult member.
TR: I've always thought AA was an addiction in and of itself.
You just trade one for the other.
MN: That's actually the whole idea of AA
It tries to substitute an addiction to their cult for an addiction to a substance. It's actually spelled out that way in their methodology.
A: What bugged me about AA was the smoking.
Sure thing, go to a meeting with two relatives and the second hand smoke was so thick I would get raging headaches.
And AA will always deny this until they are blue in the face, including using other terminology.
They are fundy "Christians."
MN: There are a number of other problems
Their model essentially treats everyone the same, however not all alcoholics are the same. Some are full blown addicts who face a strong chance of dying prematurely due to their addiction and some are nowhere near that severe.
AA has a huge dropout rate. Many people who attend a few meetings quickly discover that AA is based on religion and hocus pocus. So imagine being told you're helpless against your addiction, then dropping out once you figure out that AA is not going to help. People can be left feeling far worse than they ever started.
AA also teaches people to be ashamed if they relapse (not surprisingly since religion is largely based on shame). The problem is that the vast majority of addicts will relapse at some point and most will numerous times. Just because a person relapses, doesn't mean they are a failure or should be ashamed.
So yes, AA is based on anti-science and always has been and the results speak for themselves.
A: Because there's little evidence to suggest that it works...
The majority of people who get sober through AA typically use traditional therapy. Further more, the number of people who get sober through AA roughly equals the number of people who do it without a 12 step program.
If AA behaved more so as a support group than as a religion, then I wouldn't be knocking it. The "Big Book" actually disparages atheists. It also preaches against science and prevents its members from getting real treatment.
AA meetings are like churches, though. They all follow the same religious cannon, but some are more liberal and accepting than others.
__________________________________________________________________
I'll try to avoid making a straw man out of this but I'll summarize the points as best I can, then attempt to address them, not necessarily in the order above.
Besides...
It's not a zero-sum game. My personal experience around AA meeting rooms leads me to put the number between 15 and 30% for those rooms I've been in (which isn't all of them and I live in a pretty rough part of town) by some definition of "success". AA is not for everybody. That's right in "How it Works". For some people it isn't a good fit, some people run off before they fully understand the program (some later return), some find another way that works better for them and that's fine. AA concentrates on the ~25% (my number) that it does have the potential to work for. The intention is that people work the program as it's intended to be worked, which has been shown for some people to work. If you're doing something completely different, we can't recommend it because that's not what we've found to work. If you've found another way that works, more power to you, go do that instead and leave us to deal with our people. We've got our 25% (or whatever) and we'll deal with them as best we can. We cannot cater the program to everybody - that's impossible. Some people go through the courts, end up in treatment, then over to us and either stay or go. We have no control over this.
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become
unmanageable.
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
It comes down to, do you have control over your drinking and your behaviour. If you did, you likely wouldn't be darkening the doorway in the first place. The Big Book even recommends some controlled drinking and then trying to stop. I decided to try two drinks on Friday night, then nothing until the next weekend. I was smashed by Tuesday.
If it was simply a matter of putting the plug in the jug and sitting out the cravings, I'd be good to go. The problem is that the behavioural aspects of alcoholism fuck up your life so badly that this needs to be addressed as well. You've already tried controlling them yourself and it ain't working - get over it. All "should"'s in the world aren't going to fix it. Hence Step 2.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to
sanity.
Like I said, I really, really wish they hadn't capitalized this because it skews the meaning of the Step.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
I'll admit right now that this is getting into spooky territory, but it's there for a reason. This is practically word-for-word what Carl Jung said about alcoholism. It was the only time he had success when treating it - some sort of spirituality.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over...
So up until now we've had an admission that as things stand, things are pretty messed up and will continue to be messed up until you try something different.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
3. ...to the care of God as we understood Him. [underlining is italics in original]
...and that's where all the trouble starts - the "God" word. I would have put an asterix with the notation "with the understanding of was already said in We Agnostics, plus all the material in Appendix A, plus you'd better have a look at the little red book (forget what it's called) and there's some nice stuff in the Grapevine magazines and compilation books." It's a hell of a lot shorter to say "God." I'm the first to admit that unfortunately in meetings there are people who can't leave it at that. They feel the need to express their own understanding of "God" including people who I swear are there just to proselytize for Fundamentalist Christianity - one of the objections above. Here's the rant I use when I get upset about it.
"Lookit. The nature of my Higher Power is such that the best explanation I could give would involve a whole lot of mathematics and graphs and stuff. Unfortunately, they haven't provided a whiteboard for me and I forgot my markers at home. Also, I'm not sure how much of your High School calculus you remember and it's going to take a couple of hours and I've only got five minutes. Plus, it's my higher power and you can't have it and it probably wouldn't work for you anyway. But if you get up here and start babbling about "God" and you're not scribbling equations, there's no point in me listening to you so I'll do you the same courtesy and shut up about it.
Also, I've been using the wrong word. It's "care", not control. Here's a stupid analogy. I've tried fixing my own car in the past. I don't know a damn thing about it, I'm not mechanically inclined and I've often reduced it to the point where it won't even run. At that point I have it towed in and turn it over to the "care" of a qualified mechanic. I tell him how I managed to mess it up, he fixes it and recommends how to keep it running (like checking the oil once in awhile instead of letting it run dry). That's probably a good working definition of "care" for our purposes.
There's no explicit need for a Deity. For example, for the purposes of Step 3, turning your life over to the care and advice of your home group and your sponsor is sufficient. It's not mandatory to have a shining moment of revelation or whatever. I certainly didn't. If you do, that's nice too. Granted, it may be a bit difficult to get spiritual about a smoke-filled AA meeting or some of its denizens, but I've certainly had the occasional restful, meditative moment in a group setting. I know one guy who entered the program because his dog was suffering due to his alcoholism - wasn't getting fed, taken for walks or paid attention to. He managed to build himself a nice little spiritual program around that and has been sober since.
Given the nature of this blog, you can well imagine I've got big issues with people who attempt to drag Fundamentalist Christianity into an AA setting. My home group had been meeting in a church basement and the building was sold to a different congregation. They would only allow us to continue if they were allowed to preach at us before the meeting. We told them that wasn't acceptable and went elsewhere. One of the first AA groups I went to when I came back was "Jesus Jesus" every two minutes so after a couple of meetings I found a different group. My own sponsor said one day, when I was getting out the whiteboard and markers (I'm kidding), "why can't you just believe in G_d". I chewed him out. I've been told by people who travel a lot that there are some areas of the United States where you can't find a meeting that hasn't been corrupted by "Christian" proselytizing. YMMV drastically.
Hence, the objections raised above may very well be perfectly valid for the groups those people visited, given the website in question is in the United States. While trying to avoid No True Scotsman, I think I've made it fairly clear that this isn't how Groups are supposed to be run. But let's go over them one by one.
The answer AA provides is ridiculous. 7 of the 12 steps require one to put their faith in god. So in other words, AA teaches you that you're helpless against your addiction, and the only thing that's going to keep you on the straight an narrow is the belief in an imaginary friend that never listens to you and will never help.
Well, there's a bit more to it than that. I've known plenty of people who do (or at least say they do) Steps 1-3 and come to a screeching halt. They never dig deep, do a moral inventory, talk about it, then implement a plan to rectify some of the damage and do the maintenance steps to make sure they're not digging themselves another hole, then wonder why they go back out and get drunk again. Their problems haven't been dealt with, they just hoped some spirituality would fix it. There's lots of things to keep you on the straight and narrow - see list above.
Like any cult, the push the idea that "only we can understand each other," so it isolates the addict from their outside support and gives them a new identity as a cult member.TR: I've always thought AA was an addiction in and of itself. MN: That's actually the whole idea of AA It tries to substitute an addiction to their cult for an addiction to a substance. It's actually spelled out that way in their methodology.
I had a drinking problem for years and years and receive a lot of contradictory and bad advice, mostly from people who didn't have a drinking problem. I had resorted to reading popular self-help books and stumbled upon one in particular. The author had a completely different approach to talking about alcohol and described some of his own drinking career and life decisions. I had just nicely empathized with him when he announced (paraphrase), "If you think about alcohol like I did, and drink like I did and behaved like I did, there's a fair chance you're an alcoholic. There's a program for you called AA - check it out". This is the first time I'd found anybody who seemed to "get it" - simple stuff like getting the screaming-meemies watching somebody walk out of a restaurant without finishing their bottle of wine and it going to waste.
People who have staggered into meetings have likely already had their fair share of advice, good and bad and been unable to implement it, otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place. We have a plan that we think works, so we want people to follow that plan, not a mishmash of other stuff. I find it a bit of a stretch to call attendance an "addiction" and I haven't seen anything like that in the literature per se but would welcome someone pointing it out on rebut. Certainly there are people who heavily involve themselves in the program, but if the alternative is to go out and get drunk, I don't have a huge problem with this. If it's affecting their home life or work then there may be a problem here but I personally haven't run into this. YMMV
Full disclosure, I'm on the vestry of a church within the Anglican Community, have studied Christianity extensively and even been on a Panel of Inquisition. I'm also a church musician. I've founded an AA group (it folded) and been treasurer of two other ones.
(Got my church hat on) Due to a decline in church attendance overall, many churches have fallen on hard times. They have found the best way to attract members is to appear to be a "busy church" with lots of activity going on and to be seen to be doing "good works". So, they'll rent the building out to all sorts of groups just to get people passing through the building and thinking "this would be a nice place to go to church" or "these are nice people" or whatever. (AA hat on) By design, AA groups are broke so they can't afford to pay much. Churches tend to provide rooms either for free or for a token amount. The equivalent office space or space at a community league would be a fortune. So the answer to that one is "the rent's cheap".
In North America, the strong majority of religious/spiritual people are within the Christian realm of followers of the Abrahamic Tradition (I'm tap-dancing around the word "Christian" because of its strong ties to Evangelical Fundamentalism). Members included the founders of AA and most of the original membership. Be that as it may, as said above, it was quickly decided to keep specific religiosity out of it. In deference to those members, however, many meetings end with the Lord's Prayer. The groups I attend where this takes place, the chair ends the meeting with the words along the lines of "For those who would like to, please join me in the Lord's Prayer or prayer of your choice". In one meeting where that didn't happen, I made a stink about it and the Group decided to change it. The two Groups I primarily attend don't do the Lord's Prayer, substituting the Responsibility Pledge, the Serenity Prayer or the Promises. Prayer is certainly not limited to Christianity and meditation features in many practices of spirituality including martial arts. The Prayers we do use are widely applicable. The Serenity Prayer translates for my spirituality to "respect the limits of your equations".
(Church hat) Given my qualifications above, I know how to run a religion. You need a fixed set of beliefs defining your higher power (dogma), some sort of Rite, a top-down hierarchy of authoritative (or authoritarian) control, and a variety of hoops you need to jump through to be considered a valid member. Some religions also insist upon control over dress, manners, sexual issues and decorum.
AA flunks - badly.
Here's everything that I've been able to find defining "God". "Loving" (12 Traditions) and "Creator" (a couple of places). [If anybody can find any others please rebut]. That's not a hell of a lot to go on. The Masonic "Great Architect" could qualify. My equations qualify. My friend's dog qualifies (granted, that takes a bit of tap-dancing on the "Creator" part). Good luck starting an Inquisition with two words to go on.
The meetings tend to follow a similar format but in terms of a formal religious Rite invoking the Holy (ignoring the prayers which I'll get to in a bit) and callouts to a "God" summarized by a two-word dogma, there's not a lot to hang your hat on here. The Steps and Traditions are a methodology. There's no Kyrie (call for mercy), or Gloria (praise passage), a four-word Credo "as we understood him" falls flat on its face and is unsingable, the Offertory is boring "to keep the doors open and pay for coffee and literature", the sermon ("what is was like, what happened and what it's like now") is completely off-topic and the Agnus Dei is an impossibility given the dogma (you could make a vague case for Step 7 but you'd have to lose all the substitutionary atonement baggage first). We do have something like an ite missa est (the service is ended, go in peace) but that's kinda anti-climactic. We also seem have mislaid Baptism, Marriage and Communion.
We do have a Confession of sorts in Steps 4-5, but we don't perform it during the meeting, and this is standard psychological practice pre-Freud and works just fine with a non-theistic higher power. I just plug my faults into my equations. There is no Absolution per se.
(AA hat) As stated above, AA doesn't have top-down hierarchical control. The position of most powerful control (if you can call it that) in AA is the meeting chair, assuming he can get everybody to sit down and shut up long enough to actually hold a meeting. YMMV. An AA Group will have a "business meeting" to conduct routine business such as financial stuff. If somebody raises an issue like prayer at the meeting, a "group conscience" meeting is called to thrash it out. The Groups send representatives to General Services committees (that's what I do) who deal with matters "affecting other groups or AA as a whole" and those committees send recommendations to regional meetings, then to New York. All is done by "trusted servants" emanating from the groups. Basically, it would be like the congregations getting together and telling the Pope what to do if AA was a religion.
When I share at an AA meeting I announce "My name is [redacted] and I have a desire to stop drinking." That's my way of announcing that I qualify as a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. That's the sole requirement. You don't need to have done the Steps or anything else. We had a bit of controversy awhile ago what do to about drug addicts in meetings. I'd be chairing and have somebody pop up and say "I'm [redacted] and I'm an addict." I'd ask. "Do you have a desire to stop drinking?" "Yes." "Welcome to the meeting. Proceed." Pissed a whole lotta people off but they knew I was right. On a side note, when I do "speaker to newcomer" I announce the more traditional "I'm an alcoholic", which indicates (at least to me) that at an absolute minimum I've done Step 1, but that's a separate issue.
Once upon a time it read "honest desire to stop drinking" but we dropped that a long time ago. That's why I don't have a huge issue with court-mandated people in the meetings. They have a desire to stop drinking. Granted, they're trying to stop drinking to keep the judge happy or salvage their marriage or get their car back or avoid some whopping fine. I don't give a damn as long as they respect the Traditions and when they get up, talk about drinking or the Step or whatever the hell the topic is.
Control over dress, manners, sexual issues and decorum? Seriously? Alcoholics? I can't get them to turn their damn cell phones off.
I will certainly grant that some of the AA literature reads like it's wall-to-wall theism but I think that's unavoidable or else it would be full of unreadable tap-dancing like in the previous paragraph. It's the same situation as the default generic-person "he" in English. We tried "he/she" for awhile and it simply didn't work. As I said above, you can't really come to full judgement on the whole issue of atheism vs. agnostism until you've waded through a couple of hundred pages of stuff and at the end of it you're just going to have a headache because the message ends up being "do whatever works". Most people have found that some sort of spirituality helps. If you can stay sober without it - go for it.
Again, this all came from hard, practical experience from Dr. Carl Jung and one of his patients in 1926, who ended up talking to an early AA-er, who brought it to the attention of the founders. Another early influence on AA was William James and his "The Varieties of Religious Experience" in which he laid out all sorts of spiritual experiences both theistic and not, all found to be beneficial in some form or another.
There have also been suggestions of a "cult of personality" around Bill W. and Dr. Bob. Some meeting rooms have their pictures up (but not identified). Some rooms have their last messages up. Some of the anti-AA websites have event taken to personally attacking them, hoping this will put a stain on AA. It's been my personal experience that they are rarely mentioned unless something historical comes up but again YYMV.
I'm the first to admit that some of the science in The Big Book and elsewhere is out of date. I also remember (rebut, please) reading it bemoaning the lack of a science/medicine-based solution to alcoholism (ie. take a pill and it goes away) and hoping eventually something will come along. Apparently it hasn't. Here's something from How it Works - "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders" a free and open admittance that these can be co-morbid with alcoholism. I can't find it right now, but it's actually recommended to go to the doctor and get these taken care of outside of the program.
AA has no problem with the medical community. The General Services Committee that I sit on has a sub-committee specifically for interacting with medical health professionals. Speakers are invited to go to the hospital, hold AA meetings and talk to patients. For a while I was on the list of people who would assist patients leaving the hospital integrate into regular life, specifically getting them lined up with an AA group and sponsoring if necessary. I have a mental health issue. There is nothing in AA to deal with it so my doctor does that. He is confident in AA's ability to deal with alcohol issues so we leave it at that. There is no conflict.
We've had plenty of people come into the rooms where its readily apparent that they need more than we provide. We're broke. We don't have the facilities. We have no place for people to detox. We don't have access to medicine or medical equipment and we wouldn't know how to use it if we did. We are not psychologists - we're a bunch of drunks. I've personally driven some of them over to detox and welcomed them back when they're released. I've picked a few up myself.
News flash!!!!
The American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) just released this
new definition of addiction after a four-year process involving more
than 80 experts.
...
Two decades of advancements in neuroscience convinced ASAM officials that addiction should be redefined by what's going on in the brain. For instance, research has shown that addiction affects the brain's reward circuitry, such that memories of previous experiences with food, sex, alcohol and other drugs trigger cravings and more addictive behaviors. Brain circuitry that governs impulse control and judgment is also altered in the brains of addicts, resulting in the nonsensical pursuit of "rewards," such as alcohol and other drugs.
Lemme guess. You've been reading John Bradshaw. Love the man. Love his books. I personally haven't seen a lot of toxic shame-based stuff in AA. I have seen, especially within Step 4, an opportunity to examine ones life for healthy shame, then do something about it.
As I mentioned above, I relapsed. When I had had enough of my second drinking career, I came back to the rooms and was treated matter-of-factly. I got the "welcome back" chorus when the chair asked for people coming back, somebody passed around a list so I could get some phone numbers, the package included some up-to-date literature including a current meeting list and after the meeting people wanted to know if I needed anything like a Big Book, information or go for coffee.
I've got somebody in one of my groups that's never managed more than 6 months of sobriety, but he keeps coming back and we keep welcoming him back because at least he makes it back and maybe, finally he'll hear the right thing that can make him stay. I wouldn't want him not to be in the meeting because occasionally he'll say something that keeps me sober. And every time he comes back, he's a little worse for wear which makes me wonder what kind of shape I'd be in if I went back out.
Here's the thing. "AA has no opinion on outside issues". I've been in business meetings where somebody popped up, complaining about the smoke saying "AA should be doing something about people's smoking - it's an addiction too". Sorry. AA is about alcohol. We've got enough problems dealing with that. If you want to quit smoking, it's not AA's issue. Do something else.
__________________________
To sum up. I've done the best I can to address the issues as I see them, as an individual member of AA. My word is not Gospel, see the resources above. I believe most of the accusations I've attempted to address are done in good faith but lack of knowledge.
I'm opening this up to rebuttal. If somebody finds an obvious problem with the above, I'll either address it in the comments, or fix the original post, noting the edit. In some cases, we may have to simply agree to disagree.
The official AA preamble
Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help others to recover from alcoholism.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. There are no dues or fees for A.A. membership; we are self supporting through our own contributions. A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
A very, very brief explanation (as best I understand it, see official sources above).
AA was founded in 1929 by two men, a doctor and a stockbroker, who had exhausted all other methods of staying sober. They stumbled across a methodology where they could stay sober by helping other people to get sober. It turned out one good way was to have informal meetings at somebody's house over a pot of coffee. Eventually it was decided that it might be a good idea to formalize things so a book was written (The Big Book) and published. In the process of writing the book the core Steps of AA were fleshed out, but not without considerable arguing. One of the biggest was what to do about religion. Some wanted to invoke something within the Abrahamic tradition (God, Allah, YHWH) but this was quickly shouted down. It eventually settled down to a recommendation (Dr. Carl Jung had some minor involvement here) for some sort of spirituality, informally referred to as a "higher power", more formally as "God" always with the caveat "as we understood him" with a realization that this understanding would, and inevitably should vary wildly from individual member to member. Frankly, to save confusion, I wish they'd left that particular moniker out of it but we're stuck with it. So there.
The other big issue was, of course, the relationship with alcohol and the definition of "alcoholism". It pretty soon became apparent that any sort of controlled drinking was out of the question. If you could do that, you wouldn't be there in the first place. It also became apparent that there were a whole host of co-morbid behavioural problems that taken together with the inability to stop drinking, could sum up a working definition of "alcoholism". By trial and error, a solution of sorts was found in The 12 Steps, published in The Big Book ..
- We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
- Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
- Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we
understood Him. [italics in original] - Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
- Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
- Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
- Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
- Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
- Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
- Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
- Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him,[italics in original] praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
- Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
A few things to note. These are bullet-points rather than full sentences. There are capitalized references to "Him" referring to "God", in the manner that it is done in holy scripture. Note, however, that "Steps" is also capitalized. Frankly I wish these weren't capitalized to save confusion, but they may have something to do with typographical and stylistic cliches of the time.
Pretty soon, the meetings got big enough that they wouldn't fit in a kitchen, then groups sprung up in other cities and it became clear that some sort of group behavioural structure needed to be fleshed out - hence (in 1945) The12 Traditions.
- Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.
- For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
- The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
- Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.
- Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
- An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property, and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
- Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
- Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
- A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
- Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
- Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films.
- Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
Note again, the "God" reference but the key words in Step 2 are "group conscience" and "trusted servants...do not govern".
As I said above, I'm a systems analyst. I've analyzed Alcoholics Anonymous and reached the firm and inescapable conclusion that it cannot possibly work...except for the fact that it does. When it became big enough to need an organizational structure, they went and set it up all backwards and upside down. There's no money to speak of (a banker's recommendation!). The hierarchy is an inverse pyramid. There's even a Service Manual that includes such gems as (paraphrase), "if you can't get a clear consensus on something - toss a coin". Lovely.
Now one thing to consider is, if you've spent any time around alcoholics or addicts, certain behaviours stick out. If you tell one to do something, the result will often be the exact opposite. Hence, a top down approach simply isn't going to work. A whole buncha rules isn't going to work. Hell, the 12 Steps are "suggested". So if you look closely at the Traditions in that light, they start to make better sense.
Here's how a typical meeting runs (YMMV wildly)
- somebody shows up 1/2 hour early to get the place open, set up chairs and tables, make coffee and set out the literature (if the group has any)
- somebody shows up to chair the meeting (it's usually the same person). This may be the most responsible position in AA, and the most exasperating
- somebody volunteers to act as secretary (there's a bit of minor paperwork involved, mostly financial)
- people volunteer or get voluntold to read various things (see below)
- the chair announces himself and welcomes everybody to the meeting
- some groups do the Serenity Prayer, some do the Responsibility Pledge, YMMV
- somebody reads the Preamble
- somebody reads a passage from The Big Book called "How it works" that includes The 12 Steps (see above) and the ABC's (see below). I personally don't like this passage for a variety of reasons, but I'm not about to change it 'cause it might be the one thing keeping somebody else sober, who may be the person who's keeping me sober
- somebody reads The 12 Traditions (see above)
- there may be other readings from other AA material (Daily Reflections, Grapevine, As Bill Sees it)
- the chair may ask if there are newcomers, people coming back or people from out of town. They are greeted
- if necessary, somebody "speaks to the newcomer" an improvised 10-minute speech on "what it was like, what happened, and what it's like now". YMMV considerably
- a topic is picked. Some groups talk about The Steps and Traditions, others allow the chair to decide, some chairs ask for suggestions from the crowd, or just "what your day has been like". A caution is sometimes expressed at this time that discussion should centre around alcoholism. This is often ignored.
- the chair picks people to speak at random (the exception being a "birthday meeting" when the birthdayee gets to pick who he wants, then speaks at the end). In large meetings it's recommended that people limit themselves to 5 minutes but if somebody needs to really talk, or they're making good points they can exceed this at the chair's discretion
- at some point baskets are passed around for the "7th Tradition". Contribution is optional.
- the meeting ends with various announcements
- some meetings close with the Serenity or (hopefully optionally) the Lord's Prayer (or prayer of your choice)
- people come up to the chair to have court papers signed
- people stand around and yack or arrange to go to the local coffee shop
Beginners (and everybody else for that matter) are encouraged to attend meetings regularly (beginners are encouraged to attempt to attend 90 meetings in 90 days where practical), read the Big Book, read other literature such as pamphlets (free), the Grapevine (a monthly magazine referred to as "a meeting in print" and other AA books (for sale but if you're hard up somebody will usually buy you one), get a sponsor (someone with experience in the program to answer questions and give advice - YMMV), and "work the Steps" in a workable timeframe. People are also encouraged to do "service work" or "12th-stepping", something so simple as helping set out the chairs, greeting at the door and making coffee, working up to chairing meetings, getting involved in committee work, taking a position of higher responsibility within committees and volunteering at central office or telephone work (some cities or even countries have a 24-hour call-in line). There are also opportunities to work within the penal system, hospitals by chairing meetings and with medical and legal professionals by giving speeches all on a volunteer basis. You can do all of it, some of it or none of it. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.
The core of AA's approach to alcoholism can probably be summed up by The ABC's...
Our description of the alcoholic, the
chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after
make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
In that...
- AA has a nuanced definition of "alcoholic" that may differ from others
- AA acknowledges an issue with control
- AA recommends some form of spirituality (but you get to pick it)
You have to bear in mind that every group is different, some are better than others. I've attended some groups and walked out half way through the meeting. I've stumbled on others that are excellent. Also, individual members' perceptions and understanding of AA vary wildly. There's plenty of bullshit spouted in meetings by people who should know better. Again, don't even trust me, check the resources above and attend some actual meetings (at more than one group) before making a hard-and-fast judgement. Much of what you read and hear about AA is complete and utter bullshit from people who have rushed to judgement based upon faulty knowledge or innate bias. There are people in AA meetings with hidden agendas including the desire to proselytize. No group is perfect. If I claimed that I'd be doing a No True Scotsman for any flaw in AA.
What prompted this blog entry was a posting on a message board I frequent. Several people on there have objections to AA, which usually results in a dogfight, which gets deleted by the moderators before anybody's had a chance to really resolve anything (assuming that's possible).
Here is the salient part of one, captured before it was deleted, usernames disguised, may be slightly out of sequence. The users are aware they're being quoted here and have agreed. They will also be provided with a link so they can come here and rebut.
________________________________________________________
MN: Here's why AA is a bullshit cult
AA advertises ridiculously high success rates which are effectively lies. The only true metric of how effective AA is would compare AA to those who decide to break their addiction on their own, and when you make that comparison you find that AA is not effective at all and some studies have shown that it is even LESS effective. If you look at the 12 steps, it's not hard to figure out why. The first step requires that you admit you are powerless over your addiction. If someone convinces themselves they are powerless over their addiction, what's to stop them from a relapse? The answer AA provides is ridiculous. 7 of the 12 steps require one to put their faith in god. So in other words, AA teaches you that you're helpless against your addiction, and the only thing that's going to keep you on the straight an narrow is the belief in an imaginary friend that never listens to you and will never help.
Z: I agree with that and more...
It's not just that it's a religious cult, it's also that A.A. is anti-science and anti-treatment. They promote ideas hat people who are addicts shouldn't be treated for their underlying psychological conditions, such a anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder, et cetera. Like any cult, the push the idea that "only we can understand each other," so it isolates the addict from their outside support and gives them a new identity as a cult member.
TR: I've always thought AA was an addiction in and of itself.
You just trade one for the other.
MN: That's actually the whole idea of AA
It tries to substitute an addiction to their cult for an addiction to a substance. It's actually spelled out that way in their methodology.
A: What bugged me about AA was the smoking.
Sure thing, go to a meeting with two relatives and the second hand smoke was so thick I would get raging headaches.
And AA will always deny this until they are blue in the face, including using other terminology.
They are fundy "Christians."
MN: There are a number of other problems
Their model essentially treats everyone the same, however not all alcoholics are the same. Some are full blown addicts who face a strong chance of dying prematurely due to their addiction and some are nowhere near that severe.
AA has a huge dropout rate. Many people who attend a few meetings quickly discover that AA is based on religion and hocus pocus. So imagine being told you're helpless against your addiction, then dropping out once you figure out that AA is not going to help. People can be left feeling far worse than they ever started.
AA also teaches people to be ashamed if they relapse (not surprisingly since religion is largely based on shame). The problem is that the vast majority of addicts will relapse at some point and most will numerous times. Just because a person relapses, doesn't mean they are a failure or should be ashamed.
So yes, AA is based on anti-science and always has been and the results speak for themselves.
A: Because there's little evidence to suggest that it works...
The majority of people who get sober through AA typically use traditional therapy. Further more, the number of people who get sober through AA roughly equals the number of people who do it without a 12 step program.
If AA behaved more so as a support group than as a religion, then I wouldn't be knocking it. The "Big Book" actually disparages atheists. It also preaches against science and prevents its members from getting real treatment.
AA meetings are like churches, though. They all follow the same religious cannon, but some are more liberal and accepting than others.
__________________________________________________________________
I'll try to avoid making a straw man out of this but I'll summarize the points as best I can, then attempt to address them, not necessarily in the order above.
- AA advertises inflated success numbers
- comparison of numbers between AA and people doing it on their own (or by other methods)
- Step 1 - powerlessness/control issues
- AA is an addiction, isolationism - "only we can understand each other"
- AA is a religion, AA is "Christian"
- AA is anti-atheist
- AA is a cult
- AA is anti-science/treatment
- is alcoholism a disease?
- relapse
- smoking
- AA advertises inflated success numbers
Besides...
- comparison of numbers between AA and people doing it on their own (or by other methods)
It's not a zero-sum game. My personal experience around AA meeting rooms leads me to put the number between 15 and 30% for those rooms I've been in (which isn't all of them and I live in a pretty rough part of town) by some definition of "success". AA is not for everybody. That's right in "How it Works". For some people it isn't a good fit, some people run off before they fully understand the program (some later return), some find another way that works better for them and that's fine. AA concentrates on the ~25% (my number) that it does have the potential to work for. The intention is that people work the program as it's intended to be worked, which has been shown for some people to work. If you're doing something completely different, we can't recommend it because that's not what we've found to work. If you've found another way that works, more power to you, go do that instead and leave us to deal with our people. We've got our 25% (or whatever) and we'll deal with them as best we can. We cannot cater the program to everybody - that's impossible. Some people go through the courts, end up in treatment, then over to us and either stay or go. We have no control over this.
- Step 1 - powerlessness/control issues
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become
unmanageable.
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
It comes down to, do you have control over your drinking and your behaviour. If you did, you likely wouldn't be darkening the doorway in the first place. The Big Book even recommends some controlled drinking and then trying to stop. I decided to try two drinks on Friday night, then nothing until the next weekend. I was smashed by Tuesday.
If it was simply a matter of putting the plug in the jug and sitting out the cravings, I'd be good to go. The problem is that the behavioural aspects of alcoholism fuck up your life so badly that this needs to be addressed as well. You've already tried controlling them yourself and it ain't working - get over it. All "should"'s in the world aren't going to fix it. Hence Step 2.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to
sanity.
Like I said, I really, really wish they hadn't capitalized this because it skews the meaning of the Step.
(b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.
I'll admit right now that this is getting into spooky territory, but it's there for a reason. This is practically word-for-word what Carl Jung said about alcoholism. It was the only time he had success when treating it - some sort of spirituality.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over...
So up until now we've had an admission that as things stand, things are pretty messed up and will continue to be messed up until you try something different.
(c) That God could and would if He were sought.
3. ...to the care of God as we understood Him. [underlining is italics in original]
...and that's where all the trouble starts - the "God" word. I would have put an asterix with the notation "with the understanding of was already said in We Agnostics, plus all the material in Appendix A, plus you'd better have a look at the little red book (forget what it's called) and there's some nice stuff in the Grapevine magazines and compilation books." It's a hell of a lot shorter to say "God." I'm the first to admit that unfortunately in meetings there are people who can't leave it at that. They feel the need to express their own understanding of "God" including people who I swear are there just to proselytize for Fundamentalist Christianity - one of the objections above. Here's the rant I use when I get upset about it.
"Lookit. The nature of my Higher Power is such that the best explanation I could give would involve a whole lot of mathematics and graphs and stuff. Unfortunately, they haven't provided a whiteboard for me and I forgot my markers at home. Also, I'm not sure how much of your High School calculus you remember and it's going to take a couple of hours and I've only got five minutes. Plus, it's my higher power and you can't have it and it probably wouldn't work for you anyway. But if you get up here and start babbling about "God" and you're not scribbling equations, there's no point in me listening to you so I'll do you the same courtesy and shut up about it.
Also, I've been using the wrong word. It's "care", not control. Here's a stupid analogy. I've tried fixing my own car in the past. I don't know a damn thing about it, I'm not mechanically inclined and I've often reduced it to the point where it won't even run. At that point I have it towed in and turn it over to the "care" of a qualified mechanic. I tell him how I managed to mess it up, he fixes it and recommends how to keep it running (like checking the oil once in awhile instead of letting it run dry). That's probably a good working definition of "care" for our purposes.
There's no explicit need for a Deity. For example, for the purposes of Step 3, turning your life over to the care and advice of your home group and your sponsor is sufficient. It's not mandatory to have a shining moment of revelation or whatever. I certainly didn't. If you do, that's nice too. Granted, it may be a bit difficult to get spiritual about a smoke-filled AA meeting or some of its denizens, but I've certainly had the occasional restful, meditative moment in a group setting. I know one guy who entered the program because his dog was suffering due to his alcoholism - wasn't getting fed, taken for walks or paid attention to. He managed to build himself a nice little spiritual program around that and has been sober since.
Given the nature of this blog, you can well imagine I've got big issues with people who attempt to drag Fundamentalist Christianity into an AA setting. My home group had been meeting in a church basement and the building was sold to a different congregation. They would only allow us to continue if they were allowed to preach at us before the meeting. We told them that wasn't acceptable and went elsewhere. One of the first AA groups I went to when I came back was "Jesus Jesus" every two minutes so after a couple of meetings I found a different group. My own sponsor said one day, when I was getting out the whiteboard and markers (I'm kidding), "why can't you just believe in G_d". I chewed him out. I've been told by people who travel a lot that there are some areas of the United States where you can't find a meeting that hasn't been corrupted by "Christian" proselytizing. YMMV drastically.
Hence, the objections raised above may very well be perfectly valid for the groups those people visited, given the website in question is in the United States. While trying to avoid No True Scotsman, I think I've made it fairly clear that this isn't how Groups are supposed to be run. But let's go over them one by one.
The answer AA provides is ridiculous. 7 of the 12 steps require one to put their faith in god. So in other words, AA teaches you that you're helpless against your addiction, and the only thing that's going to keep you on the straight an narrow is the belief in an imaginary friend that never listens to you and will never help.
Well, there's a bit more to it than that. I've known plenty of people who do (or at least say they do) Steps 1-3 and come to a screeching halt. They never dig deep, do a moral inventory, talk about it, then implement a plan to rectify some of the damage and do the maintenance steps to make sure they're not digging themselves another hole, then wonder why they go back out and get drunk again. Their problems haven't been dealt with, they just hoped some spirituality would fix it. There's lots of things to keep you on the straight and narrow - see list above.
Like any cult, the push the idea that "only we can understand each other," so it isolates the addict from their outside support and gives them a new identity as a cult member.TR: I've always thought AA was an addiction in and of itself. MN: That's actually the whole idea of AA It tries to substitute an addiction to their cult for an addiction to a substance. It's actually spelled out that way in their methodology.
I had a drinking problem for years and years and receive a lot of contradictory and bad advice, mostly from people who didn't have a drinking problem. I had resorted to reading popular self-help books and stumbled upon one in particular. The author had a completely different approach to talking about alcohol and described some of his own drinking career and life decisions. I had just nicely empathized with him when he announced (paraphrase), "If you think about alcohol like I did, and drink like I did and behaved like I did, there's a fair chance you're an alcoholic. There's a program for you called AA - check it out". This is the first time I'd found anybody who seemed to "get it" - simple stuff like getting the screaming-meemies watching somebody walk out of a restaurant without finishing their bottle of wine and it going to waste.
People who have staggered into meetings have likely already had their fair share of advice, good and bad and been unable to implement it, otherwise they wouldn't be there in the first place. We have a plan that we think works, so we want people to follow that plan, not a mishmash of other stuff. I find it a bit of a stretch to call attendance an "addiction" and I haven't seen anything like that in the literature per se but would welcome someone pointing it out on rebut. Certainly there are people who heavily involve themselves in the program, but if the alternative is to go out and get drunk, I don't have a huge problem with this. If it's affecting their home life or work then there may be a problem here but I personally haven't run into this. YMMV
- AA is a religion, AA is "Christian"
Full disclosure, I'm on the vestry of a church within the Anglican Community, have studied Christianity extensively and even been on a Panel of Inquisition. I'm also a church musician. I've founded an AA group (it folded) and been treasurer of two other ones.
(Got my church hat on) Due to a decline in church attendance overall, many churches have fallen on hard times. They have found the best way to attract members is to appear to be a "busy church" with lots of activity going on and to be seen to be doing "good works". So, they'll rent the building out to all sorts of groups just to get people passing through the building and thinking "this would be a nice place to go to church" or "these are nice people" or whatever. (AA hat on) By design, AA groups are broke so they can't afford to pay much. Churches tend to provide rooms either for free or for a token amount. The equivalent office space or space at a community league would be a fortune. So the answer to that one is "the rent's cheap".
In North America, the strong majority of religious/spiritual people are within the Christian realm of followers of the Abrahamic Tradition (I'm tap-dancing around the word "Christian" because of its strong ties to Evangelical Fundamentalism). Members included the founders of AA and most of the original membership. Be that as it may, as said above, it was quickly decided to keep specific religiosity out of it. In deference to those members, however, many meetings end with the Lord's Prayer. The groups I attend where this takes place, the chair ends the meeting with the words along the lines of "For those who would like to, please join me in the Lord's Prayer or prayer of your choice". In one meeting where that didn't happen, I made a stink about it and the Group decided to change it. The two Groups I primarily attend don't do the Lord's Prayer, substituting the Responsibility Pledge, the Serenity Prayer or the Promises. Prayer is certainly not limited to Christianity and meditation features in many practices of spirituality including martial arts. The Prayers we do use are widely applicable. The Serenity Prayer translates for my spirituality to "respect the limits of your equations".
(Church hat) Given my qualifications above, I know how to run a religion. You need a fixed set of beliefs defining your higher power (dogma), some sort of Rite, a top-down hierarchy of authoritative (or authoritarian) control, and a variety of hoops you need to jump through to be considered a valid member. Some religions also insist upon control over dress, manners, sexual issues and decorum.
AA flunks - badly.
Here's everything that I've been able to find defining "God". "Loving" (12 Traditions) and "Creator" (a couple of places). [If anybody can find any others please rebut]. That's not a hell of a lot to go on. The Masonic "Great Architect" could qualify. My equations qualify. My friend's dog qualifies (granted, that takes a bit of tap-dancing on the "Creator" part). Good luck starting an Inquisition with two words to go on.
The meetings tend to follow a similar format but in terms of a formal religious Rite invoking the Holy (ignoring the prayers which I'll get to in a bit) and callouts to a "God" summarized by a two-word dogma, there's not a lot to hang your hat on here. The Steps and Traditions are a methodology. There's no Kyrie (call for mercy), or Gloria (praise passage), a four-word Credo "as we understood him" falls flat on its face and is unsingable, the Offertory is boring "to keep the doors open and pay for coffee and literature", the sermon ("what is was like, what happened and what it's like now") is completely off-topic and the Agnus Dei is an impossibility given the dogma (you could make a vague case for Step 7 but you'd have to lose all the substitutionary atonement baggage first). We do have something like an ite missa est (the service is ended, go in peace) but that's kinda anti-climactic. We also seem have mislaid Baptism, Marriage and Communion.
We do have a Confession of sorts in Steps 4-5, but we don't perform it during the meeting, and this is standard psychological practice pre-Freud and works just fine with a non-theistic higher power. I just plug my faults into my equations. There is no Absolution per se.
(AA hat) As stated above, AA doesn't have top-down hierarchical control. The position of most powerful control (if you can call it that) in AA is the meeting chair, assuming he can get everybody to sit down and shut up long enough to actually hold a meeting. YMMV. An AA Group will have a "business meeting" to conduct routine business such as financial stuff. If somebody raises an issue like prayer at the meeting, a "group conscience" meeting is called to thrash it out. The Groups send representatives to General Services committees (that's what I do) who deal with matters "affecting other groups or AA as a whole" and those committees send recommendations to regional meetings, then to New York. All is done by "trusted servants" emanating from the groups. Basically, it would be like the congregations getting together and telling the Pope what to do if AA was a religion.
When I share at an AA meeting I announce "My name is [redacted] and I have a desire to stop drinking." That's my way of announcing that I qualify as a member of Alcoholics Anonymous. That's the sole requirement. You don't need to have done the Steps or anything else. We had a bit of controversy awhile ago what do to about drug addicts in meetings. I'd be chairing and have somebody pop up and say "I'm [redacted] and I'm an addict." I'd ask. "Do you have a desire to stop drinking?" "Yes." "Welcome to the meeting. Proceed." Pissed a whole lotta people off but they knew I was right. On a side note, when I do "speaker to newcomer" I announce the more traditional "I'm an alcoholic", which indicates (at least to me) that at an absolute minimum I've done Step 1, but that's a separate issue.
Once upon a time it read "honest desire to stop drinking" but we dropped that a long time ago. That's why I don't have a huge issue with court-mandated people in the meetings. They have a desire to stop drinking. Granted, they're trying to stop drinking to keep the judge happy or salvage their marriage or get their car back or avoid some whopping fine. I don't give a damn as long as they respect the Traditions and when they get up, talk about drinking or the Step or whatever the hell the topic is.
Control over dress, manners, sexual issues and decorum? Seriously? Alcoholics? I can't get them to turn their damn cell phones off.
- AA is anti-atheist
I will certainly grant that some of the AA literature reads like it's wall-to-wall theism but I think that's unavoidable or else it would be full of unreadable tap-dancing like in the previous paragraph. It's the same situation as the default generic-person "he" in English. We tried "he/she" for awhile and it simply didn't work. As I said above, you can't really come to full judgement on the whole issue of atheism vs. agnostism until you've waded through a couple of hundred pages of stuff and at the end of it you're just going to have a headache because the message ends up being "do whatever works". Most people have found that some sort of spirituality helps. If you can stay sober without it - go for it.
Again, this all came from hard, practical experience from Dr. Carl Jung and one of his patients in 1926, who ended up talking to an early AA-er, who brought it to the attention of the founders. Another early influence on AA was William James and his "The Varieties of Religious Experience" in which he laid out all sorts of spiritual experiences both theistic and not, all found to be beneficial in some form or another.
- AA is a cult
There have also been suggestions of a "cult of personality" around Bill W. and Dr. Bob. Some meeting rooms have their pictures up (but not identified). Some rooms have their last messages up. Some of the anti-AA websites have event taken to personally attacking them, hoping this will put a stain on AA. It's been my personal experience that they are rarely mentioned unless something historical comes up but again YYMV.
- AA is anti-science/treatment
I'm the first to admit that some of the science in The Big Book and elsewhere is out of date. I also remember (rebut, please) reading it bemoaning the lack of a science/medicine-based solution to alcoholism (ie. take a pill and it goes away) and hoping eventually something will come along. Apparently it hasn't. Here's something from How it Works - "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders" a free and open admittance that these can be co-morbid with alcoholism. I can't find it right now, but it's actually recommended to go to the doctor and get these taken care of outside of the program.
AA has no problem with the medical community. The General Services Committee that I sit on has a sub-committee specifically for interacting with medical health professionals. Speakers are invited to go to the hospital, hold AA meetings and talk to patients. For a while I was on the list of people who would assist patients leaving the hospital integrate into regular life, specifically getting them lined up with an AA group and sponsoring if necessary. I have a mental health issue. There is nothing in AA to deal with it so my doctor does that. He is confident in AA's ability to deal with alcohol issues so we leave it at that. There is no conflict.
We've had plenty of people come into the rooms where its readily apparent that they need more than we provide. We're broke. We don't have the facilities. We have no place for people to detox. We don't have access to medicine or medical equipment and we wouldn't know how to use it if we did. We are not psychologists - we're a bunch of drunks. I've personally driven some of them over to detox and welcomed them back when they're released. I've picked a few up myself.
- Is alcoholism a disease?
News flash!!!!
Addiction is a chronic brain disorder and not simply a behavior
problem involving alcohol, drugs, gambling or sex, experts contend in a
new definition of addiction, one that is not solely related to
problematic substance abuse.
...
Two decades of advancements in neuroscience convinced ASAM officials that addiction should be redefined by what's going on in the brain. For instance, research has shown that addiction affects the brain's reward circuitry, such that memories of previous experiences with food, sex, alcohol and other drugs trigger cravings and more addictive behaviors. Brain circuitry that governs impulse control and judgment is also altered in the brains of addicts, resulting in the nonsensical pursuit of "rewards," such as alcohol and other drugs.
- relapse
Lemme guess. You've been reading John Bradshaw. Love the man. Love his books. I personally haven't seen a lot of toxic shame-based stuff in AA. I have seen, especially within Step 4, an opportunity to examine ones life for healthy shame, then do something about it.
As I mentioned above, I relapsed. When I had had enough of my second drinking career, I came back to the rooms and was treated matter-of-factly. I got the "welcome back" chorus when the chair asked for people coming back, somebody passed around a list so I could get some phone numbers, the package included some up-to-date literature including a current meeting list and after the meeting people wanted to know if I needed anything like a Big Book, information or go for coffee.
I've got somebody in one of my groups that's never managed more than 6 months of sobriety, but he keeps coming back and we keep welcoming him back because at least he makes it back and maybe, finally he'll hear the right thing that can make him stay. I wouldn't want him not to be in the meeting because occasionally he'll say something that keeps me sober. And every time he comes back, he's a little worse for wear which makes me wonder what kind of shape I'd be in if I went back out.
- smoking
Here's the thing. "AA has no opinion on outside issues". I've been in business meetings where somebody popped up, complaining about the smoke saying "AA should be doing something about people's smoking - it's an addiction too". Sorry. AA is about alcohol. We've got enough problems dealing with that. If you want to quit smoking, it's not AA's issue. Do something else.
__________________________
To sum up. I've done the best I can to address the issues as I see them, as an individual member of AA. My word is not Gospel, see the resources above. I believe most of the accusations I've attempted to address are done in good faith but lack of knowledge.
I'm opening this up to rebuttal. If somebody finds an obvious problem with the above, I'll either address it in the comments, or fix the original post, noting the edit. In some cases, we may have to simply agree to disagree.
Tuesday, 14 August 2012
WBC rejoices at Texas AM shootings
*sigh*
Rebekah Phelps-Roper @WBCVideo
Rebekah Phelps-Roper
RT @GodSmacksU: THANK GOD FOR SENDING THE SHOOTER TO TEXAS AGAIN! Why couldn’t your maroon wall stop today’s shooter?
http://bit.ly/O6v9sm
GodSmack: Maroon Wall Fail! http://bit.ly/O6v9sm
They're also ignoring the law against protesting military funerals.
Wishful thinking on the part of the delusional.😳
RT @BI_Defense New Law May Spell End Of WBC Military Funeral Protests http://www.businessinsider.com/new-law-hr-127-may-bankrupt-the-westboro-baptist-church-2012-8?utm_source=twbutton&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=defense
Another dead MI soldier. God's wrath! Westboro to picket funeral of Spc.McClain, 8/16,Rochester Hills.
#Died4Fags2Wed
@fox2news
@local4news
WBC Funeral Pkt Army Spc. Kyle B. McClain 8/16 @ 11AM , St. Mary of the Hills Catholi Church, Rochester Hills, MI
Funeral: F 8/17 @ 10AM West Point, MostHolyTrinityChapel, USMACadetChapel, 699 Washington Road, West Point, NY
Smart guy! Not only sees new federal law is unconstitutional, but that WBC's legal challenge is inevitable. #sueobama http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2012/08/constitution-check-can-the-government-require-protesters-to-justify-their-intentions/
WestboroFuneralPkt: rmy Major Thomas E. Kennedy, son of a former NYPD Detective; graduate of West Point. #ButNowInHell #DiedForFagMarriage
and I guess they've also got it in for California and naturists just on principle.
California for a second day on Monday, threatening a clothing-optional resort and forcing the evacuation of some 500 homes. #PutUrClothesOn
Tuesday, 31 July 2012
Kermit deserves the death penalty
Kermit deserves the death penalty
OK, I have to avoid falling into a logical fallacy. It's the one where if some members of a group think and say crazy things, the entire group must be insane. I'm sure you can think of some groups where if they proclaimed the sky being blue today, you'd still go and look because it might be pink. What concerns me is that when some members of some groups run off the rails and say batshit crazy things, the remainder of the group don't come forward and decry his views, or at least say he's having a bad day.
I started today with a migraine and this one's just making it worse. I'm tempted to just go bang my head against the wall for awhile but when I'd come back, these people would still be eye-wateringly deluded. Some applicable LOLs - "the stupid is strong in this one", "the stupid, it burns".
Let's make absolutely sure I've got this straight. The gentleman in question wants puppets put to death because of their parent company's views on same-sex marriage and presumably homosexuality in general.
A good friend of mine is a puppeteer. We've worked together on some projects. He's currently doing something in the TV industry in British Columbia in addition to his puppet projects. I've seen his puppets when not in use. Most live in a large wooden box. They don't move, speak or breathe on their own. They're dead. They've always been dead. The only time they come to life is when my friend works with them.
Apparently one of Jeff Dunham's puppets says things that could be interpreted as a slur on Islam. However, Jeff Dunham's various puppets say a lot of controversial things. Jeff is a nightclub comedian and that's how they make their living. The good ones are equal opportunity jokesters - they insult everybody! If I have a problem with his puppets, there's no point in burning them at the stake, I need to have a word with Jeff himself.
It's equally ridiculous to propose eating Miss Piggy on a bun. Miss Piggy is inedible. Miss Piggy is a construct of fabric and sticks brought to life by an actor hiding down below, likely voiced by somebody completely different, following a script probably written by a team of writers. That is actual reality.
What delusional world are these people living in?
OK, I have to avoid falling into a logical fallacy. It's the one where if some members of a group think and say crazy things, the entire group must be insane. I'm sure you can think of some groups where if they proclaimed the sky being blue today, you'd still go and look because it might be pink. What concerns me is that when some members of some groups run off the rails and say batshit crazy things, the remainder of the group don't come forward and decry his views, or at least say he's having a bad day.
I started today with a migraine and this one's just making it worse. I'm tempted to just go bang my head against the wall for awhile but when I'd come back, these people would still be eye-wateringly deluded. Some applicable LOLs - "the stupid is strong in this one", "the stupid, it burns".
Let's make absolutely sure I've got this straight. The gentleman in question wants puppets put to death because of their parent company's views on same-sex marriage and presumably homosexuality in general.
A good friend of mine is a puppeteer. We've worked together on some projects. He's currently doing something in the TV industry in British Columbia in addition to his puppet projects. I've seen his puppets when not in use. Most live in a large wooden box. They don't move, speak or breathe on their own. They're dead. They've always been dead. The only time they come to life is when my friend works with them.
Apparently one of Jeff Dunham's puppets says things that could be interpreted as a slur on Islam. However, Jeff Dunham's various puppets say a lot of controversial things. Jeff is a nightclub comedian and that's how they make their living. The good ones are equal opportunity jokesters - they insult everybody! If I have a problem with his puppets, there's no point in burning them at the stake, I need to have a word with Jeff himself.
It's equally ridiculous to propose eating Miss Piggy on a bun. Miss Piggy is inedible. Miss Piggy is a construct of fabric and sticks brought to life by an actor hiding down below, likely voiced by somebody completely different, following a script probably written by a team of writers. That is actual reality.
What delusional world are these people living in?
Friday, 20 July 2012
RRR reaction to Batman theatre shooting spree
MargiePhelps
@MargieJPhelps
More from the Phelps.
MargiePhelps @MargieJPhelps
DIRECT result of filthy fag pride parade in Colo.
#YouR2Blame
MT @davidbadash: 14 Dead,50 Wounded By Colorado Gunman During Batman Premiere.
It's sackcloth & ashes time Mr Prez! Mourn for sins!
#onlyhope
MT @DavidNakamura: @BarackObama will address Aurora, Colo shooting this a.m.
You should thank God for 50 injured in Aurora CO - lest God should kill more than 14. #RichAuroraWomanToldWBC #WeNoObey #WBCToPicketFunerals
Some idiot (Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) blamed the shootings on "ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christians beliefs"
More from the Phelps.
MargiePhelps
So many times Westboro has begged you to obey God.You raised a generation of God-mockers.Now @CNN @cnnbrk breathlessly reports mayhem. #OBEY
Friday, 13 July 2012
Georgia home-schooled girl punished with shock collar
Georgia home-schooled girl punished with shock collar because ‘the Bible says’
A Georgia couple was arrested this week on charges of child cruelty and false imprisonment after their 15-year-old daughter told authorities that she was forced to live in a chicken coop and wear a remote-controlled shock collar.
These people are likely biblical literalists. I've read the Bible cover to cover in several translations and there's nothing in there about shock collars. Besides, I've tried them with my dachshunds and they don't work. The same technique also hasn't worked in the ex-gay movement.
Assuming they were married and the presiding minister asked "does anybody know a good reason why these two should not", somebody should have gotten up and said "they're too stupid to breathe, nevermind breed".
Friday, 29 June 2012
This is a hoax, right? Please? Crap, it's not.
I wish I was making this up. I've held off posting for two days in the hopes this is a hoax or a cruel joke or something other than another example of the twisted reality we live in.
Texas GOP: "We oppose the teaching of higher order thinking skills, critical thinking skills and similar programs...[which] have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority." Clicking the link above opens a pdf document from the official Texas Republican Party website. Scroll down to pg 20 of 30 (using the app), 2/3 of the way down the page, the section marked "Knowledge-based Education".
That's right. They want their children to be unable to think, so they are unable to challenge authority.
While we're at it, here's some other juicy bits.
Early Childhood Development – We believe that parents are best suited to train their children in their early development and oppose mandatory pre-school and Kindergarten. We urge Congress to repeal government-sponsored programs that deal with early childhood development. (pg. 20)
We believe theories such as life origins and environmental change should be taught as challengeable scientific theories subject to change as new data is produced. (pg. 20) - that's code for "we ain't teaching evolution or global warming".
We oppose any sex education other than abstinence until marriage. (pg. 21). No wonder they've got one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the world.
We urge the Legislature to end censorship of discussion of religion in our founding documents and encourage discussing those documents. (pg. 21) - that's either "The Founding Fathers were religious" or school Bible study, not sure which, possibly both.
Textbook Review – Until such time as all texts are required to be approved by the SBOE, each ISD that uses non-SBOE approved instructional materials must verify them as factually and historically correct. Also the ISD board must hold a public hearing on such materials,... (pg. 21) - translates to "we'll teach what the community (controlled by the local Fundamentalist church) thinks is true, the facts be damned".
Private Education – We believe that parents and legal guardians may choose to educate their children in private schools to include, but not limited to, home schools and parochial schools without government interference, through definition, regulation, accreditation, licensing, or testing. (pg. 21) Let's fill little Johnny's head with lies, bullshit, heresy and batshit science, then turn him loose on the world. What could possibly go wrong? And just to make sure...
U.S. Department of Education – Since education is not an enumerated power of the federal government, we believe the Department of Education (DOE) should be abolished. (pg. 22)
Other issues...
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (“Obamacare”) ― We demand the immediate repeal of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which we believe to be unconstitutional. (pg. 19). A little late for that considering the Supreme Court says it is constitutional. Guess they just don't want Canadian-style health care and would prefer to stick with a system that's the most expensive in the world and least effective.
Religious Symbols - We oppose any governmental action to restrict, prohibit, or remove public display of the Decalogue or other religious symbols. (pg. 15) In other words, the ability to post the 10 Commandments in courtrooms.
Pledge of Allegiance - We support adoption of the Pledge Protection Act. We also urge that the National Motto “In God We Trust” and National Anthem be protected from legislative and judicial attack. (pg. 15) Ignoring that the National Motto is a federal issue.
American English - We support adoption of American English as the official language of Texas and of the United States. (pg. 15) Ignoring that there's no such language.
American Identity Patriotism and Loyalty – We believe the current teaching of a multicultural curriculum is divisive. We favor strengthening our common American identity and loyalty instead of political correctness that nurtures alienation among racial and ethnic groups. (pg. 20) - Like jingoism worked so well in the 50's.
Two pages (16-17) on abortion.
Conscience Clause - We believe that doctors, nurses, pharmacists, any employees of hospitals and insurance companies, health care organizations, medical and scientific research students, and any employee should be protected by Texas law if they conscientiously object to participate in practices that conflict with their moral or religious beliefs, including but not limited to abortion, the prescription for and dispensing of drugs with abortifacient potential, (pg. 17) - in other words medical professionals can refuse to handle blood products if they are Jehovah's Witnesses or dispense the morning after pill to rape victims.
Immunizations ― All adult citizens should have the legal right to conscientiously choose which vaccines are administered to themselves or their minor children without penalty for refusing a vaccine. (pg. 19) So I guess they want polio back.
...and of course...
Homosexuality ― We affirm that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society and contributes to the breakdown of the family unit. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be presented as an acceptable “alternative” lifestyle, in public policy, nor should “family” be redefined to include homosexual “couples.” We believe there should be no granting of special legal entitlements or creation of special status for homosexual behavior, regardless of state of origin. Additionally, we oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction or belief in traditional values. (pg. 16)
...and its corollary...
Family and Defense of Marriage ― We support the definition of marriage as a God-ordained, legal and moral commitment only between a natural man and a natural woman, which is the foundational unit of a healthy society, and we oppose the assault on marriage by judicial activists. We call on the President and Congress to take immediate action to defend the sanctity of marriage. We are resolute that Congress exercise authority under the United States Constitution, and pass legislation withholding jurisdiction from the Federal Courts in cases involving family law, especially any changes in the definition of marriage. We further call on Congress to pass and the state legislatures to ratify a marriage amendment declaring that marriage in the United States shall consist of and be recognized only as the union of a natural man and a natural woman. Neither the United States nor any state shall recognize or grant to any unmarried person the legal rights or status of a spouse. We oppose the recognition of and granting of benefits to people who represent themselves as domestic partners without being legally married.
Texas GOP: "We oppose the teaching of higher order thinking skills, critical thinking skills and similar programs...[which] have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority." Clicking the link above opens a pdf document from the official Texas Republican Party website. Scroll down to pg 20 of 30 (using the app), 2/3 of the way down the page, the section marked "Knowledge-based Education".
That's right. They want their children to be unable to think, so they are unable to challenge authority.
While we're at it, here's some other juicy bits.
Early Childhood Development – We believe that parents are best suited to train their children in their early development and oppose mandatory pre-school and Kindergarten. We urge Congress to repeal government-sponsored programs that deal with early childhood development. (pg. 20)
We believe theories such as life origins and environmental change should be taught as challengeable scientific theories subject to change as new data is produced. (pg. 20) - that's code for "we ain't teaching evolution or global warming".
We oppose any sex education other than abstinence until marriage. (pg. 21). No wonder they've got one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the world.
We urge the Legislature to end censorship of discussion of religion in our founding documents and encourage discussing those documents. (pg. 21) - that's either "The Founding Fathers were religious" or school Bible study, not sure which, possibly both.
Textbook Review – Until such time as all texts are required to be approved by the SBOE, each ISD that uses non-SBOE approved instructional materials must verify them as factually and historically correct. Also the ISD board must hold a public hearing on such materials,... (pg. 21) - translates to "we'll teach what the community (controlled by the local Fundamentalist church) thinks is true, the facts be damned".
Private Education – We believe that parents and legal guardians may choose to educate their children in private schools to include, but not limited to, home schools and parochial schools without government interference, through definition, regulation, accreditation, licensing, or testing. (pg. 21) Let's fill little Johnny's head with lies, bullshit, heresy and batshit science, then turn him loose on the world. What could possibly go wrong? And just to make sure...
U.S. Department of Education – Since education is not an enumerated power of the federal government, we believe the Department of Education (DOE) should be abolished. (pg. 22)
Other issues...
The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (“Obamacare”) ― We demand the immediate repeal of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which we believe to be unconstitutional. (pg. 19). A little late for that considering the Supreme Court says it is constitutional. Guess they just don't want Canadian-style health care and would prefer to stick with a system that's the most expensive in the world and least effective.
Religious Symbols - We oppose any governmental action to restrict, prohibit, or remove public display of the Decalogue or other religious symbols. (pg. 15) In other words, the ability to post the 10 Commandments in courtrooms.
Pledge of Allegiance - We support adoption of the Pledge Protection Act. We also urge that the National Motto “In God We Trust” and National Anthem be protected from legislative and judicial attack. (pg. 15) Ignoring that the National Motto is a federal issue.
American English - We support adoption of American English as the official language of Texas and of the United States. (pg. 15) Ignoring that there's no such language.
American Identity Patriotism and Loyalty – We believe the current teaching of a multicultural curriculum is divisive. We favor strengthening our common American identity and loyalty instead of political correctness that nurtures alienation among racial and ethnic groups. (pg. 20) - Like jingoism worked so well in the 50's.
Two pages (16-17) on abortion.
Conscience Clause - We believe that doctors, nurses, pharmacists, any employees of hospitals and insurance companies, health care organizations, medical and scientific research students, and any employee should be protected by Texas law if they conscientiously object to participate in practices that conflict with their moral or religious beliefs, including but not limited to abortion, the prescription for and dispensing of drugs with abortifacient potential, (pg. 17) - in other words medical professionals can refuse to handle blood products if they are Jehovah's Witnesses or dispense the morning after pill to rape victims.
Immunizations ― All adult citizens should have the legal right to conscientiously choose which vaccines are administered to themselves or their minor children without penalty for refusing a vaccine. (pg. 19) So I guess they want polio back.
...and of course...
Homosexuality ― We affirm that the practice of homosexuality tears at the fabric of society and contributes to the breakdown of the family unit. Homosexual behavior is contrary to the fundamental, unchanging truths that have been ordained by God, recognized by our country’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be presented as an acceptable “alternative” lifestyle, in public policy, nor should “family” be redefined to include homosexual “couples.” We believe there should be no granting of special legal entitlements or creation of special status for homosexual behavior, regardless of state of origin. Additionally, we oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction or belief in traditional values. (pg. 16)
...and its corollary...
Family and Defense of Marriage ― We support the definition of marriage as a God-ordained, legal and moral commitment only between a natural man and a natural woman, which is the foundational unit of a healthy society, and we oppose the assault on marriage by judicial activists. We call on the President and Congress to take immediate action to defend the sanctity of marriage. We are resolute that Congress exercise authority under the United States Constitution, and pass legislation withholding jurisdiction from the Federal Courts in cases involving family law, especially any changes in the definition of marriage. We further call on Congress to pass and the state legislatures to ratify a marriage amendment declaring that marriage in the United States shall consist of and be recognized only as the union of a natural man and a natural woman. Neither the United States nor any state shall recognize or grant to any unmarried person the legal rights or status of a spouse. We oppose the recognition of and granting of benefits to people who represent themselves as domestic partners without being legally married.
Tuesday, 26 June 2012
It's time to get religious fundamentalists out of the school system
In order to avoid anything interfering with their authoritarian worldview, many religious Fundamentalist parents are removing their children from the school system and homeschooling them, using a modified curriculum. In some cases entire school boards are taken over and the curriculum modified to exclude science and logic and include religious nonsense.
Here's the latest.
The Loch Ness monster proves creationism.
Let's try to follow the 'logic'. The Loch Ness monster is a dinosaur that survived The Flood, making it a recent event because otherwise they would have died out. Oh-kaaaaaayy. I've been to Loch Ness. It's a horrible, depressing lake with tricky cross currents that show strange wave patterns on the surface any time of the day or night. There's been one grainy photograph that looks like an old boot, a couple of unconfirmed sightings and a couple of radar echos of "something". I've personally seen better proof of space aliens (a story for another time).
As for the dinosaurs, they never died out. I'm having one for lunch. It's called a chicken. Lay out a chicken skeleton next to a dinosaur skeleton (making allowances for size) and there's a distinct correlation. All the right bones are there. Dinosaurs evolved. One branch became lizards. The other branch became birds.
That's too complicated for a Fundamentalist. They'd rather swallow an impossible story like the Ark, biological impossibilities (bats are birds) out of the Bible than deal with the real world as it actually is. And they want their kids believing the same nonsense, leaving them utterly unprepared for dealing with life as life actually is.
_______________________
I've been asked to put together a presentation for my church addressing the issues surrounding human sexuality, including gay marriage. I'm likely going to assemble it here in the form of blog posts so I've got it all in one spot.
Here's the latest.
The Loch Ness monster proves creationism.
Let's try to follow the 'logic'. The Loch Ness monster is a dinosaur that survived The Flood, making it a recent event because otherwise they would have died out. Oh-kaaaaaayy. I've been to Loch Ness. It's a horrible, depressing lake with tricky cross currents that show strange wave patterns on the surface any time of the day or night. There's been one grainy photograph that looks like an old boot, a couple of unconfirmed sightings and a couple of radar echos of "something". I've personally seen better proof of space aliens (a story for another time).
As for the dinosaurs, they never died out. I'm having one for lunch. It's called a chicken. Lay out a chicken skeleton next to a dinosaur skeleton (making allowances for size) and there's a distinct correlation. All the right bones are there. Dinosaurs evolved. One branch became lizards. The other branch became birds.
That's too complicated for a Fundamentalist. They'd rather swallow an impossible story like the Ark, biological impossibilities (bats are birds) out of the Bible than deal with the real world as it actually is. And they want their kids believing the same nonsense, leaving them utterly unprepared for dealing with life as life actually is.
_______________________
I've been asked to put together a presentation for my church addressing the issues surrounding human sexuality, including gay marriage. I'm likely going to assemble it here in the form of blog posts so I've got it all in one spot.
Thursday, 14 June 2012
Wednesday, 13 June 2012
Inside the mind of an authoritarian
Required reading - The Authoritarians
Two things to talk about today. Dr. Linda Roberts of the Phelps clan has run off the rails and a Dr. Justin Frank has written an analysis of Romney's constant lying.
Let's talk a bit about reality. I use the word "actually" a lot. People like me are considered "reality-based". We perceive the world (aka "evidence-based"), then make up a set of business rules to deal with it. If we find our perception is incorrect or the world has changed, we revise the business rules.
Other people I know say "should" a lot. They have a pre-conceived idea of how the world should work, then bend reality around them to make it confirm. While not a conservative, Steve Jobs did this kind of thing. People called it his "reality distortion field".
In the real world, 5-10% of the population is "gay" by some definition of the word. It's been an issue for thousands of years. Attempts have been made to make it go away. They haven't worked. Some people are actually gay and are going to actually stay that way. Get over it. That's the reality-based view.
The other view (some people call it "faith-based") is that (pick and choose what makes a coherent narrative), everybody should be straight, there is no such thing as homosexuality, people who claim to be "gay" are straight and living a "gay lifestyle" and just need to make an effort and/or pray and/or take drugs (deprecated) but in the meantime they are horrible vile disgusting creatures, prone to diseases and medical conditions, want to indoctrinate everybody else into homosexuality, ban heterosexuality and hence cannot be trusted around children or in normal society, are incapable of monogomy and should be shunned/isolated/killed as a way of showing Christian love. Any person/city/state/institution not supporting this should be punished in the form of tornados, hurricanes, forest fires, losing sports team or any other bad thing that comes to mind. To support this they quote the Bible or make up bogus science (google Paul Cameron and Joseph Nicolosi of NARTH).
Don't believe me? Have gander at one day's worth of tweets from Dr. Linda Roberts (@GodsLandGodsLaw) of the Phelps clan.
It comes down to the difference between "authoritative" and "authority". In the reality-based world there are some people who are considered an authority in their field. Einstein comes to mind. Every once in awhile someone comes along to challenge one of Einstein's theories (more about "theory" in a bit). We had one last year where they thought they'd spotted neutrinos going faster than the speed of light. Nobody said "Einstein is wrong", they (including the people who published the study) said "check the work". They eventually nailed it down to malfunctioning equipment. But, they wouldn't have been upset if Einstein was wrong. That's where new science comes from. Remember the Bohr atom? It had its heyday and is still a useful shorthand for chemistry but it was supplanted by newer science.
That's not the way it works in the conservative world. A few excerpts from the article.
I used to be a proponent of the English variant E-Prime, English without the verb "to be". It made you think very, very carefully about the world. You couldn't say "the sky is blue" - you said "the sky appears blue". It also prevented the use of passive voice - there always had to be an action.
In sociological circles, they no longer talk about someone "being gay". It's now "men who sleep with men", a much more accurate description.
Conservatives also don't understand "theory". My definition (which is probably wrong) is "the most coherent explanation reached from an examination of the known facts". To them, theory is fiction, probably because they have such a poor relationship with fact. Gravity is a theory because we still don't have a firm methodology towards non-electromagnetic attraction. Be that as it may, I'm not standing under a grand piano suspended by a string. I don't care what authority figure says it's perfectly safe.
Update - a better explanation:
Two things to talk about today. Dr. Linda Roberts of the Phelps clan has run off the rails and a Dr. Justin Frank has written an analysis of Romney's constant lying.
Let's talk a bit about reality. I use the word "actually" a lot. People like me are considered "reality-based". We perceive the world (aka "evidence-based"), then make up a set of business rules to deal with it. If we find our perception is incorrect or the world has changed, we revise the business rules.
Other people I know say "should" a lot. They have a pre-conceived idea of how the world should work, then bend reality around them to make it confirm. While not a conservative, Steve Jobs did this kind of thing. People called it his "reality distortion field".
In the real world, 5-10% of the population is "gay" by some definition of the word. It's been an issue for thousands of years. Attempts have been made to make it go away. They haven't worked. Some people are actually gay and are going to actually stay that way. Get over it. That's the reality-based view.
The other view (some people call it "faith-based") is that (pick and choose what makes a coherent narrative), everybody should be straight, there is no such thing as homosexuality, people who claim to be "gay" are straight and living a "gay lifestyle" and just need to make an effort and/or pray and/or take drugs (deprecated) but in the meantime they are horrible vile disgusting creatures, prone to diseases and medical conditions, want to indoctrinate everybody else into homosexuality, ban heterosexuality and hence cannot be trusted around children or in normal society, are incapable of monogomy and should be shunned/isolated/killed as a way of showing Christian love. Any person/city/state/institution not supporting this should be punished in the form of tornados, hurricanes, forest fires, losing sports team or any other bad thing that comes to mind. To support this they quote the Bible or make up bogus science (google Paul Cameron and Joseph Nicolosi of NARTH).
Don't believe me? Have gander at one day's worth of tweets from Dr. Linda Roberts (@GodsLandGodsLaw) of the Phelps clan.
- Homosexuals love anarchy so they side with libtardism as anarchy is the only way society will accept this filthy perversion. #tcot #gop #p2
- Homosexual activists should be charged with murder for indoctrinating children into AIDS and death. #tcot #gop #teaparty
- Pro sodomy (homo'l) activists like @fakedansavage are headed to a school near you to indoctrinate YOUR children into the sodomy death style.
- Acceptance of homosexuals/pedophiles spells the end for our morals and values. It's all downhill from here. #tcot #gop #teaparty
- We must push for a Christian theocracy and expunge radical muslims, atheists and libtards from God's nation. #OneNationUnderGod #tcot #gop
- God WILL punish America (more twisters, hurricanes, etc) if we don't return his nation to him. #OneNationUnderGod #tcot #gop #teaparty
- First things of order: 1. Outlaw homosexuality/sodomy. 2. Outlaw Abortion/close abortion clinics. 3. Ban all religions except Christianity.
- And yes I'm #PROLIFE but if we could solve homosexuality but aborting gaybies, then I'd be in favor. Morals are more important!
- I'm all 4 science proving homosexuality to be genetic (that way we can abort gaybies + solve this homo problem) but it won't happen!
It comes down to the difference between "authoritative" and "authority". In the reality-based world there are some people who are considered an authority in their field. Einstein comes to mind. Every once in awhile someone comes along to challenge one of Einstein's theories (more about "theory" in a bit). We had one last year where they thought they'd spotted neutrinos going faster than the speed of light. Nobody said "Einstein is wrong", they (including the people who published the study) said "check the work". They eventually nailed it down to malfunctioning equipment. But, they wouldn't have been upset if Einstein was wrong. That's where new science comes from. Remember the Bohr atom? It had its heyday and is still a useful shorthand for chemistry but it was supplanted by newer science.
That's not the way it works in the conservative world. A few excerpts from the article.
Romney doesn’t lie. Let me repeat: Mitt Romney doesn’t lie. He is telling the truth as he sees it — and truth it is, facts notwithstanding...This is about a conflict between evidence and faith... when two Mormon Elders who were questioned about the inconsistency in passages from the Book of Mormon said “We know the Book of Mormon is true and that it contains the Word of God even in the face of evidence that appears contradictory,” Thus there are no lies, only faith-based certainty that translates as truth for which no apology is needed, since what was said was not a lie...in the Mormon Church, there was a decision to accept authority as true — whether or not evidence supported it.Romney is an authoritarian leader. He is not an authority in any field on knowledge except how to get people to follow him, and he probably wouldn't tell you how to do it. Romney attracts authoritarian followers. Rather than thinking for themselves, they gravitate to a leader who will promise simplistic, black-and-white solutions to complex problems. They are not bothered by the fact that those solutions change from day to day (hence the Etch-a-sketch quip), have failed miserably where they've been tried, or are against their own best interests (eg. taxation). They are used to this from Fundamentalist Christianity's obsession with Biblical literalism and simplistic, Bible-story theology. The Bible is true because it says it's true, and let's just skip over the complicated stuff.
I used to be a proponent of the English variant E-Prime, English without the verb "to be". It made you think very, very carefully about the world. You couldn't say "the sky is blue" - you said "the sky appears blue". It also prevented the use of passive voice - there always had to be an action.
In sociological circles, they no longer talk about someone "being gay". It's now "men who sleep with men", a much more accurate description.
Conservatives also don't understand "theory". My definition (which is probably wrong) is "the most coherent explanation reached from an examination of the known facts". To them, theory is fiction, probably because they have such a poor relationship with fact. Gravity is a theory because we still don't have a firm methodology towards non-electromagnetic attraction. Be that as it may, I'm not standing under a grand piano suspended by a string. I don't care what authority figure says it's perfectly safe.
Update - a better explanation:
Monday, 11 June 2012
4-year-old killed by RRR preacher because he thought he was gay
Peter Lucas Moses, North Carolina Man, Pleads Guilty In Deaths Of Woman And Boy He Thought Was Gay
"A North Carolina man pleaded guilty to murdering both a 28-year-old woman and a 4-year-old child he reportedly believed was gay."
He's got 3 wives, 9 of his own kids (the murdered kid wasn't one of them). Calling himself "Lord", he's the leader of "the Black Hebrews, whose members believe they have descended directly from the ancient tribes of Israel. The Black Hebrews are also said to believe that a forthcoming 'race war' will leave blacks dominant and supreme,".
He shot him in the head because his father left the cult, leaving the boy's mother (who was one of Moses' wives) behind and he hit the backside of another boy (something I've seen plenty of football players do). The corpses were wrapped in trash bags and left in a shallow grave.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)